Hey gang--please read this article (http://www.startribune.com/local/17406054.html) and comment on it; consider the following questions:
As we become more diverse and pluralistic in both ideology and religious practices, how do we continue to accommodate for all voices without compromising some or all of peoples' inalienable rights?
Is there a limit to how diverse we can become?
Should we reexamine the constitution because the society has fundamentally changed?
Is the constitution a frozen document?
As the population grows and our belief systems multiply, can we continue to cherish diversity?
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First off, I think that Compromise is exactly what we need to find. Everyone can’t have everything; we need to share in order to function. The U.S. is like a puzzle with many parts, and the only way we will fit together to create a beautiful picture is if we listen to each other, and learn from each other. So yes we would be compromising, but not so much our rights as luxuries. And it just might turn out that we gain what we lost in compromise back, just in a different form.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, I think diversity is a wonderful thing, because it benefits people’s perspectives, and it has no limit. However, unfortunately, some people are reluctant to open their minds to new ideas and cultures, and that’s what brings forth problems.
Third, The Constitution was never meant to last this long, it was more of a “we need something now” solution. That’s why it’s been Amended 27 times (ok the first 10 should count as 1 but that still leaves 17). (And it probably would have a ton more if certain politicians weren’t so lazy.) Anyway it’s outdated, and although it gives some valid points, it is so vague that its interpretation is a real pain in the but. I mean look at the sentence that Katherine Kersten builds her entire argument on: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…” (Amendment 1, BOR). And that is the line that leads to “separation of Church and State?” phenomenon. What in reality has nothing to do with religion in schools. One could even argue that the TIZA should get support, because not giving students a choice to go to a school that gives them time to worship, when it is required by the religion they have chosen, would be “prohibiting the free exercise” of the religion. Now I see the next argument coming up “well why don’t private Lutheran (or any other religion) schools get such support”. Think about it the Christian day of worship is on Sunday, no school then and all major Christian Holidays fall into breaks, no school then either. So one could basically argue that all regular public schools do exactly for Christians what TIZA does for Muslims. Also, parents choose to send their child to a charter school, rather than any other public school, so basically no one is forcing them to participate in anything, what eliminates any other argument the reporter brought forth.
As jamie says we need to compromise since everyone can't have everything that they want. I think that right now we have a society that listens to most people but still not all people are heard. I'm not sure how we can go about making it so that their rights and voices aren't compromised but I think that if the people that are setting the rules put their minds together they would most likely be able to come up with some sort of solution. Also I do not think that we can ever become too diverse as a society I think at some point there will be some many different kinds of people living here that it will just seem like a norm. The constitution is something that can be changed and I think that if it does seem to be outdated that it should be changed to fit the needs of society as best it can. While our population is always growing our belief systems will be getting larger and I think that it helps us cherish diversity more and more and helps us see why other people are the way that they are.
ReplyDeleteI highly agree with the first two comments, except for the fact of people being heard. I believe that there is very few people that are ever heard and those are the ones that take the most action, for example a march or protest.
ReplyDeleteIn addition to Jamie's comment about The Constitution, she is right on point. The Constitution has been changed several times, i dont think we should write a new one but add to the exsiting one. I do disagree with the "separation of Church and state" the two should be separte. Yes im Christian, but having the two combined I believe its going to lead to more school shootings, and other bulling. I just dont see it probable anytime in the near future.
I agree with the other posts as well, We deffniatley need a compromise, I think everyone will have to give and take some. Like Jamie said, we need to listen and learn to solve the puzzle. I think we need to be more diverse and thats how we will learn as well and maybe we can create a better compromise. I know all voices are not going to be heard but if people get togethr and put their minds to it possibly can be done.
ReplyDeleteThe Consitition is a litle outdated and I think we should NOT changed but add more to fit the needs of todays soceity.
I think we can always cherish diversity and the more we have it the better and maybe the more we have the more the voices will be heard.
back in high school i remember that on one day some kids from mix group(a program where students with different racial backgrounds work togather) went on the public speaker & wished happy eid for muslim students. then one of the pffice made the kids apologize for the comment they made in cliaming its against the law. but when they wish happy christmas its not aginst the law. what im trying to say is that i agree with what everybody said. since america is so diverse we need to make sure that the constitution accommodates that.
ReplyDeleteI think that the constitution still has some relivance in our society, but for the most part it is an outdated document that is in need of revision in order to fit in to our modern society. Some compromises will have to be made reguarding a lot of issues. I am concerned about the response of people upon asking anyone to compromise reguarding their religion. I believe that in the wake of education religion should accomodate education's needs.
ReplyDeleteI believe that individuals should be allowed to practice their religion; however when this is done in a public school setting it is a sensitive subject as there will be individuals of a different religion attending the school. I agree with the comment that when different religions are practiced it allows us to become more diverse.
ReplyDeleteConstitution should be amended to prevent people from finding loopholes in order to prance around and do as they please. I do not cherish diversity, it can be useful at times, but overall I think that it is not as great as everyone would like to believe. Diversity causes alot of problems, and I believe that one of the problems is all the different religions here in America, all but one are false and man made to serve the purposes of man. Only one religion was created by a God, the one and only God, and it serves his purposes which are more important than ours. This religion is of course Christianity. having all the other religions just causes us to desintigrate as a country. They cause more seperation between people, we do not need more religions, we need less, that way we would not only have similar beliefs but we would be more unified. As it is now America would be easy to shatter. Especially with a muslim as president. One of the main reasons I voted for Bush was because he is agains't gay marriages, it is good that Lutherans and Catholics are doing what they can to keep gay marriages out of Minnesota.
ReplyDeleteFirst was that school strictly for the families and kids who have the religious view? If not then i think that they should not be having prayer in the school. Religion and Education should be seperate unless in the private school setting if that is the case maybe they should make the school private then they can do whatever they please when it comes to religion and education. Also then the tax payers would not have to pay so much because typically in private schools people have to pay to attend. Also i think people should cherish diversity its going to happen if you like it or not if you dont you are closed minded and are stuck in your ways and change is not usually a BAD thing.
ReplyDeleteMy issue with this comes from the fact that it is in fact a charter school and nobody is forcing people to attend. It seems to me this school is more inclined to people of the Muslim culture, but not specifically teaching religion. Just because a school doesn't revolve around christian ideals (which the majority of public schools do) it's suddenly public enemy number 1?
ReplyDeleteI don't see the issue in this school being in existence and I say it should be commended for offering a more culturally fit program for certain kids.
I think that if it is illegal to have religion in schools then that is that. I would not force Christianity into schools, religion is supposed to teach to obey the laws of man as well as the laws of religion. I think that according to this article it is obvious that this school is blatanly breaking the law.
ReplyDeletethe fact that the scool is illegal is true. but the government is doing nothing about it gives this feeling that they think its okay to do that to them its no harm done.
ReplyDeleteIan, I dont see how gay marriage has anything to do with this topic or the reason you voted for Bush. Since you brought the subject up, why shouldnt they be able to get married? With comments like that is why our nation wont change for a long time. Gay marriage is against my religion, but also drinking and sex before marriage. I was strongly against gays for the longest time until i started to work retail at the Mall of America where i had a few co-workers who were gay and i realized that their arent as bad as what i thought they were. All I am saying is that as a nation we need to open up our eyes and go outside our box if we are ever going to knock down these hatred walls.
ReplyDeleteI must say, that on one point here I agree with Ian, (shocking I know). Religion should not actually be thought in schools, and TIZA should maybe consider teaching their extracurricular after school religious education in a different place that doesn’t officially belong to the school. However other than that I just don’t see what TIZA could have done to offend people. The only other difference between TIZA and any public school is that it is a charter school that takes use of its vacations and holidays in a way that fits its students more antiquate.
ReplyDeletePeople that go to that school are obviously going to live around that area therefore making it less diverse i think. What about the people that arn't muslim living around that area, how far do they have to travel so their child is not forced to practice another religion. I believe that our public schools have breaks during christian holidays because they know that the majority religion in America obviously is christian. They know most students wouldn't show up anyway; so therefore why not make breaks at that time and extend school longer into the year. I believe it is making it less diverse... lets seperate students to make them think even more about their diffenence from othe people in other public schools. Yes we have breaks during holidays but we could also compromise and have a certain area set aside for muslim worship in public schools, it wouldn't be pushed but they would be able to follow their religion. yes church falls on sunday but we don't go to school on saturday either... it's a weekend. Christians also have bible study and things like that but churches also schedule that around school hours so it is after school. I believe this is not right and it is manipulating our constitution. I don't care how outdated people say it is; it is still our constitution, what America is built around... it is why alot of people want to come to America! I like diversity and think it is very interesting to learn about others cultures and beliefs but how is that promoting diversity when them children are seperated at a young age and made to feel different from all the other diverse groups that get to go to one school together.
ReplyDeleteGood point Kari, I never thought of it that way.
ReplyDeletetesting
ReplyDeleteI think we need to become an open-minded nation and accept diversity by all means not only different culture but different religion as well. I don,t any problem a Muslim president in our country because they are part of this great nation and remember Islam is the fast growing religion in USA
ReplyDeleteCompromise is good and keeping an open mind as well but if the school is a Muslim school primarily then whats the problem with the prayer? No one should be forced but maybe if the Christians wanted to pray they could gather elsewhere and have their own prayer group. Maybe I'm too neutral on the religion subject???
ReplyDeletechristians do have there own prayed group, called church. Some things about God are in our schools because christianity was the main religion in founding this country, God should stay in schools. I don't think that just because Islam is a fast growing religion that it is justified to be in schools. Many of you think America needs to be open minded, it is open minded, too open minded, we have allowed to many things into this country and that is why it is weaker. If a school wants to have religion like that in it, then they should just start an Islamic school.
ReplyDeleteFrom what i got from the article this is a public school that gets tax payers money. There should not be any religion going on in the school at all. If the school were private that student's parents paid to get their child into i would be more understanding. But in a public school this should not be happening at all. The article almost made it seem as though the kids were forced into learning the religion. Especially with the bus leaving AFTER the islamic studies are done, what about the kids that don't go to that program? Yes we are a diverse country but people are coming to America so stop making us convert our ideals to yours. I don't care if you study religion out side of school (thats what my church did) but it shouldn't be brought into school nor should there be assemblies during school about the religion. Ian, this topic is not about discussing your vote for bush nor you being against gay marriage. I am catholic but im not trying to keep gay marriage out of mn. Your pessimistic views are sad and disturbing and hopefully im not the only one that thinks this. I do agree that the school is blatantly breaking the law though, and there should be no change to the constitution as it has held up this long and doesn't need to change just because America allows other cultures to come here. Just like learning to speak our language immigrants need to stop trying to change our country.
ReplyDeleteBecky, you cannot call yourself a Catholic or any other denomination of Christian if you are for gay marriage. It is obviously stated in the bible that God considers same sex marriage an abomination. Though you do call yourself a Catholic, so I am not surpirised that your views are so contridictory. Catholics are well known for interpreting the bible to fit their own selfish wants. Ian
ReplyDeleteIan, did i say i was for gay marriage? No, i said i wasn't trying to keep them out of MN. Do not think that i state my feelings directly from being catholic, as it was a religion i was forced into by my parents. Also, I do not directly define myself as a catholic as there are other aspects that make up my personality and reasoning. How can you call yourself a christian considering how judgemental you are. I thought the judging was up to "God". You need to attempt to understand that in this day and age people no longer decide how they feel about topics from religion. My religion doesn't give me answers my experiences and opinions do. Try thinking for yourself and not what your religion tells you to think, maybe then you wouldn't offend so many people. A reply from you is unnecessary and not wanted nor do i want you to reply to any of my other comments.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that every time I say something people think they can attack me? But I can not do it? I think for myself, obviously, or I would not get irritated and do something foolish such as put others down as I did to you Becky. Seeing things through Christianity gives you a better understanding of how the world works. You did call yourself Catholic, if you call yourself Catholic then that is part of your definition of you. I assumed since you do not care if gay marriage is in MN that you were not agaisn't gay marriage. I think that is a pretty safe assumption to make, and if you think gay marriage is ok in MN but yet you are agains't it......then you are a little confused. I am sorry for putting you down the way I did, but, maybe you should be more careful about critisizing and judging me, I try not to do it to others (though I slip, I am human) so please try not to do it to me. Ian
ReplyDeleteI too do not agree with this schools choices. Even though it is a charter school, it is still getting public school funding. If it wants to be this type of school, that is fine by me, but then it should be a private school. There are enough issues out there in the school systems with trying to teach the students the fundamentals of learning and trying to pass all of the state set tests. Lets focus on these issues in school and leave religion out, all religion. There are plenty of other oppurtunities for religious practices.
ReplyDeletealthough this school may be producing passing grades and have all of the state required classes being taught, i feel that they should keep the religious factors out of the school. I dont think it would be that hard to just wait until after school to take care of their religious beliefs. i do kind of feel like we are picking on this school though because they are not whites and i also feel that a compromise would be the perfect key to the door of happiness and peace.
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