Tuesday, March 3, 2009

Excellent Article on the Discussion of Race

Here is a really thought provoking op-ed piece by Leonard Pitts of the Miami Herald on why we as a society are lousy at discussing race in a meaningful way. Check it out and leave your thoughts. I'm going to chime in later with my thoughts.

20 comments:

  1. Yeah I agree with what was said, and I have noticed a lot of those things myself. I was surprised about the rise in hate groups, almost. So many people I know are just like the people described in the article, so I found it to be right on with my own personal experiences. I will say that it is very true that the people who consider themselves racist will almost always take their "ideals" to anyone who will listen, and very rarely are told anything that contradicts their words. A very widespread problem it seems. I knew such a group of kids in high school. "The Rednecks". When these kids meet I call it the "Truck Show." They all meet to admire their trucks and talk about who gets the worst milage and how much they hate certain peoples. I was on occasion present at one of these Truck Show's and every now and again they would talk about how much they hate particular minorities, but never why. They didn't have any real reason. They're just "Rednecks" and will do whatever they think a redneck does. A very depressing experience. I can't say that I myself said anything to those kids, but in my defense its kind of hard when ur surrounded by 20 "Rednecks" with plenty of gun racks and usually even more guns than they can hold.

    ReplyDelete
  2. after reading your comment above, i am offended with your use of "Redneck". Not every person froma small town is simple minded, drives a truck, and feels that way about other races. If you truely felt offended im sure you could have spoke up and shared the way you felt. Classifying people like that into one lump category goes against the same thing we talk about in class with how those before us treated all the blacks and immigrants as a whole, not individuals and i think we should all practice what we preach...

    ReplyDelete
  3. I agree with Kristi, it's wrong to believe all "rednecks" are racists. A good amount of my friends would consider themselves "rednecks" and I have never heard them say anything racist. I think that perhaps Andrew you are having a self-fulfilling prophecy about "rednecks". Maybe just those "rednecks" you spent time with were racist, but do not say that every one of them is a racist.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Whoa now, step back and take a deep breath. I used the word redneck because thats what they described themselves as, not me. That's why I used quotations when I said it. So don't get offended by their own language. also I said nothing about any other group of kids, so saying that I was trying to say anything about anyone else is just bullshit. I never said anything about anyone but the kids I knew. Maybe I should have just said that they all described themselves as redneck. ALL of the kids I was talking about were self proclaimed racist, self proclaimed rednecks, and stars and bars flyers. That's not a self fulfilling prophecy either, you just think that what I said was aimed at all rednecks and not just those kids that I knew. Well I'm telling you it's not, I know good people that would call themselves rednecks. Aside from that, the point that I was making wasn't about rednecks at all, it was about me agreeing with the article about a lot of the people who hold beliefs like that telling everyone they meet. Those kids were only meant as an example of this. Next time I say something I will make sure to clarify on certain aspects. What I'm saying really boils down to the fact that they called themselves redneck, and that's why I used it to describe them. Rereading what I said I probably could have worded it better, but I still don't think you should see the word redneck and just pounce on me because you know some kids who think they're redneck who aren't racist. Whether they are (rednecks) or not is not the point because I really don't know what makes a person a redneck. If its just thinking it, or it's certain actions. Most of the rednecks are people who call themselves rednecks, and there are a ton of connotations associated with the word redneck. So to clarify, What I said above only applies to the kids that I knew, and is not aimed at anyone else who thinks they are or actually are a redneck. Also, you don't know these kids and to say that I could have told a bunch of gun toting idiots what to do without an "incident" involving my face and more than one fist is crazy. I'm not going to sit there and argue with a bunch of kids who have crazy beliefs, because they don't base it on anything logical, and trying to argue logic with them only invites a beat down for myself. This comment is getting bulky and some things may seem out of place. Anyway, what I think a redneck is and what you think a redneck is may be totally different, but that's what happens with words. Words are symbols to represent something. What that word is supposed to represent can be different for many people. The word brings many different feelings when different people hear it. Anyone that describes themselves as a redneck should understand that a lot of people think rednecks are racist, and by calling themselves rednecks they are going to have to fight an uphill battle to make people think they are not. I was never saying anyone who is a redneck is racist and I don't think thats true, BUT a lot of people do. It's not my fault that certain people don't understand what is associated with being a redneck. Aside from what I think, I'm sorry that I used the word redneck in a manner that offended you, maybe next time you will show me how its done. I doubt we will see eye to eye at all on this, so lets just agree to disagree. I appologize for writing in a style that would make it seem as if I was aiming my remarks at all rednecks. This is not what I meant. In the future, I will try to avoid this mistake.

    ReplyDelete
  5. On a side note, fill me in on what does and doesn't make a person a redneck then. If what I said about those kids was so off on what a redneck is, then surely you must know what a redneck really is to be able to make that distinction.

    ReplyDelete
  6. And right here you three exemplified why having a discussion about race is so damned hard in this country. You can never be sure what word or phrase will set someone off or offend them. And because our society is so incredibly PC, don't rock the boat conscious many are afraid of the symbols certain words hold and stand for. Redneck, for example, brings a very specific image to mind. Generally speaking it invokes the symbol of someone who drives a big truck, is country, a hunter, lives in a trailer park, is uneducated, and yes, racist. Those are a few of the words which hop into my head when I think of the word redneck. I know this isn't true of everyone who identifies themselves as rednecks but they (and their friends) need to understand by labeling themselves as such they are going to have to put up with a lot of stigma as Andrew was getting at in his post.

    We're afraid to discuss race openly. This is the issue and the root of the problem. As a society we're so ready to pounce on someone for any small slip of the tongue. We're always ready to wag our fingers and say "Gotcha!" or "Shame on you!" It's puts a fear of language into us and fear of a language makes us fear open discussion. We're so hair trigger over certain words. People try to ban Huckleberry Finn because the word nigger appears in it. It even part of one character's name. But it makes sense in the context of the story. I'm a writer and I use ugly language if it makes sense for a character I'm creating. There are stand up comedians, Dave Chappelle to Louis C.K., who use language to highlight and make fun of our fear.

    I honestly think we need to not be afraid of the language that's out there when it comes to discussing race. I'm not advocating using it in the conversation but I am saying we need to be able to have intelligent conversations without the fear of being labeled racist.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Well I think the main problem is that most people have a fear of offending someone and then being accused of being a racist. People need to lighten up about certain things. You should make sure you know exactly how someone meant when they said what they did. If you hear someone say something that you find to be offensive and yet you have used it yourself, even if you were with your friends and joking around, there is no way that you can honestly say that you are offended. If you do, then you are a complete hypocrite. For that reason, people are afaid to say anything, because someone might find it offendsive and chances are they have used it themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I agree with Matt and Seth. Racism is a touchy subject. Take Wednesday's class for example, everyone was a little timid to write down stereotypes of African Americans, in case they were to offend someone.

    I also agree with Andrew, instead of jumping all over someone for saying something you might have found offensive, take the time to stop and ask what they really meant. Or maybe reread it first, before you jump to conclusions.



    "Be the change you want to see in the world"

    ReplyDelete
  9. I do not feel like I attacked Andrew, and I am sorry if you felt offended. I simply wrote it was wrong to believe all rednecks were racists, because thats how I felt you portrayed them in your first blog. After reading how upset you got and your personal experience with the one group I could see where you're coming from, but it was not stated in the first blog that you meant only one group of rednecks you knew. Again sorry if I offended you in anyway, that wasn't what I was trying to do.

    ReplyDelete
  10. No matter what anyone says someone somewhere will be offended. Also, to me white people really have to watch what we say because of the fact of our past and what we have done, but in another since any other race can say whatever they feel about whites and we have to sit back and take it when that also is racist, like if someone called a white person cracker. You can't say that that isn't racist as well. But, I personally try to avoid coming off as racist or try not to make any racist remarks.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I really like how race was described by Leonard Pitts as "race is like a four-car pileup on the freeway: it simultaneously attracts us and repels." I believe it is so true. Even if you are the type of person who is a people pleaser and has never or doesn't wish to offend others with their words, it is inevitable that racist remarks, even if not meant, would cross their lips once in describing a person of another color, religion, or nationality. History has changed the course for many generations to come, we cannot go back, but I think it's important that knowing what has happened in the past, and how it's changed race relations in our society is so important, and I think is even a good topic to talk about with someone of a different race to get their point of view...talking is educational, two people talking about a topic like this one brings about different knowledge of the subject, giving you a learning experience. So if that wasn't confusing enough, I will sum it up saying that I believe this article is very great for Americans to read, because it is a gateway to productive conversation and topics that have otherwise been witheld because of fear of offending.

    ReplyDelete
  12. When talking about race, I too am worried that I will offend someone. It's an important topic that I believe needs to be discussed openly, but probably never will. People should be able to talk about it and try to keep in mind that not everyone is racist and trying to offend someone by the things they say. By talking about racism, some of the stereotypes could be broken and help move our country farther along in breaking down racism.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Wow! I just read the other comments and I could feel the tension! I guess in that case I will also say that I agree with the article. People are very much afraid of being racist or offensive. I am married to a person of different race and have had some bad experiences due to this, from white people as well as other races. Most of my experiences for the most part have been good or most people say nothing at all. This is fine. When I first married my husband I myself was afraid of saying the wrong thing. Because of this his family thought I was stuck up. They thought this because I was quiet at gatherings and such. Over the years I have grown more comfortable with them and that has extended to other races as well. I feel better now that I have been able to get to know other cultures better and have made some really great friends. So I think it is really important that people speak up and ask questions when they are unsure of something. We can't change the past but we can change the future.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I agree with many of the above on how race can be touchy and people are affraid to offend somebody. I personally feel like I can talk about race issues with an open-mind, but i don't. I think that thats the issue but most of my friends are caucasin like me. I also feel that the younger people like us students have an easier time talking about these subjects which may never change.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I believe that this article is true. People are almost always worried that they will say somethihng wrong or offenseive about a different race. This is evident when people say the "N" word instead of the real word. I'm not saying that they should just out and say the real one but it does reafirm the fact that people are always looking over their shoulder in a way and not wanting to offend someone. I think that we should have open debates about race relations and not hold it all inside because we have a fear of offending someone. If there is a disscusion about race and someone gets offentded first of all it is a discussion on race so there shouldn't be any offense taken out against anyone and secondly if someone says something and another person gets offended, they would probably have taken offence at anything you said so it shouldn't really matter to you. I think that there should be discussions about race and everynoe attendiong should realize that the other group present wants to discuss it just as mich as they do, and talk about the issue and not worry about whether someone is being racist or not.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I believe we need to talk about racism. We need to because we will finally get somewhere. I don't believe that look we have a Black person in office is a good argument rather I feel that is undermining Obama's abilities. Whites need to know that things are going to be said and every color needs to realize that too. But, with things out in the open you can begin to talk about it. The conversation will not be pleasant but it will be progressive.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I, too, believe that racism should be talked about. I know I have felt uncomfortable talking about certain things around certain people. I was really embarrassed to say my list of racial stereotypes of African American people in front of the class on Wednesday. I also, feel uncomfortable about saying the "correct" or "incorrect" terms for a certain race. I don't want to offend anybody because I am an open-minded person and would like to learn from other cultures rather than to run away from the unknown. I think that if society was different and would talk about different races and racism, many people wouldn't feel the same way I do.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I feel with a society in which we are raised to think we can act how we want, talk how we want, and live how we want, we are not raised to keep other peoples feelings in mind, and say things that offend people without realizing it. andrew wasnt wrong to say how he felt about the redneck story, but neither were any of us for defending it, i feel race is something thats hard for me to tlak about because i ve grown up in a typical small town, in a middle class white fmaily, and am a bit sheltered when it comes to talking about race relations because its really unknown to me. As someone going into nursing i feel that this article helped me because i deal with people of different races and religions everyday of my life now.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I know it's a little late, but I just want to clarify a few things I missed when I wrote my response. The people who were offended were saying that I was stereotyping because They thought I was talking about everyone who thinks they are redneck. While I wasn't and I said so in my extremely long comment, I don't think I should have to. I think people think that a person can be a true redneck without being racist. This is why I disagree

    REDNECK ISN'T A RACE. It's a symbol. A symbol mostly associated with hate. Now someone calling someone else a redneck just because they drive a big truck or live in a trailer park is stereotyping, but when people call themselves redneck, they are inviting all the stereotypes associated with the word upon themselves. That is the point I was trying to make in my essay comment. It doesn't matter that they aren't racist. They associate themselves with a group that is known for being racist. Thats it. Thats all. People need to understand the difference. Assuming someone is racist because you think they are a redneck is different from thinking someone is racist because they say they are a redneck. If I told you I was a police officer, then you would expect me to do things a police officer does. It doesn't matter that any one person thinks that a person can be redneck without being racist. The point is that people who are genuine rednecks are racist, because that's what the word represents along with other characteristics and life style choices. People think rednecks are racist. So if you say you're redneck, it's like saying you're racist. This isn't the only thing that it applies to. It's just the one we were discussing so it's the one I used.

    ReplyDelete
  20. I know I've said quite enough already, but I think that "Redneck" is becoming too mainstream, I don't know if that's the right word, I mean it's becoming like a good thing, despite what it meant in the past. It's like the college team name. I think it was the sooners. They were Indian land squatters, and now people are proud to be the Oklahoma Sooners. Same concept. Maybe the word will lose its negative connotations, I don't really know. Maybe it already has and I'm just being stupid, but the point is it has stood for some pretty terrible things and, I think, it still does to a lot of people.

    ReplyDelete